Pricing on 1911-S

[TPring]

In looking (https://www.usacoinbook.com/coins/small-cents/lincoln-wheat-cent/) at the pricing (https://www.pcgs.com/prices/priceguidedetail.aspx?ms=2&pr=1&sp=1&c=46&title=lincoln+cent+(wheat+reverse)) on lower grade 1911-S's, I am seeing that prices are much higher than for the other earl-year LWCs with mintages in the low billions and, seems to flatten out in higher grades.

Is there a specific reason for that?

[GrumpyEd]

Maybe add some info on what you see. What grades and color?

The 11-S is a tough coin, someplace behind the 09-S.
It doesn't seem to flatten out much in RD, $750-900 in 64 then $2800-4500 in 65 then leaps up to $12,000 in 66 so that doesn't seem flat in those red grades.

[TPring]

Maybe add some info on what you see. What grades and color?

The 11-S is a tough coin, someplace behind the 09-S.
It doesn't seem to flatten out much in RD, $750-900 in 64 then $2800-4500 in 65 then leaps up to $12,000 in 66 so that doesn't seem flat in those red grades.



Thanks for the reply, Ed.

Specifically I am referring to coins in the G to EF range in brown [that is the data I am seeing].

If you look at any of the other coins around that time with a mintage of 4B-5B [12S,14S,15S], the 11S is far more expensive than the others which are within proximity of each other [price-wise]. Even the 24D [at 2.5B, mintage] is not far off in price.

Of the two sites I provided, the USA Coin Book has it in G6 at nearly $60 whereas PCGS only has it at $34 so not sure about the difference there, either.

As for 'flattening out', I used an inaccurate description. I meant the price difference seems to flatten out [diminish] as the grade gets to MS though that is where the two sites have quite different prices. :tinysmile_hmm_t2:


Hopefully that explains some of what I am referring to. I am asking because I have been looking for RPMs 1 & 2.


Thanks

[GrumpyEd]

In those normal lower grades, 11-s costs more than a 10-s and less than an 09-s, lower grades can be pretty cheap for 11-s but still people buy em to fill that hole so they do sell. Interesting point you made that the G6 in the USA coin book is $60 then it's only $34 on the PCGS guide... pretty sad since grading cost is at least around the 30 with all fees so you'd take a beating selling one... the reason being that the collectors buying slabs may want higher grades (just my guess?) so slabbing a G6 is not worth it. Also that $60 price seems high for a G6, I see low grades in flips for around $20 at shows.

[Petespockets55]

.......... with a mintage of 4B-5B [12S,14S,15S], ....... Even the 24D [at 2.5B, mintage]........ Thanks

(What am I missing?) Not to pick but they were only minted in the millions in the early teens.

[TPring]

(What am I missing?) Not to pick but they were only minted in the millions in the early teens.

Thanks,

My question was in regard to why [at the lower grades] the '11S is so much more expensive than the 12S, 14S and 15S at about the same mintage.



The billions was a typo -- They are in the same ballpark as far as mintage goes.

[Petespockets55]

Thanks,

My question was in regard to why [at the lower grades] the '11S is so much more expensive than the 12S, 14S and 15S at about the same mintage.

The billions was a typo -- They are in the same ballpark as far as mintage goes.

I'm going to say it is availability meaning supply and demand. Mintages are only where that year of Lincoln's started out. There may not be as many survivors in decent grades as the other years.

[GrumpyEd]

Yes it probably is availability/survival and maybe some mystique based on the early coin book prices.

Here's another interesting fact, it all shifts when you look at high grades.
I know myself, I tried doing a set in unc grades (anything MS60-65 and ignoring 22P), it's almost complete but missing 14-S, 15-S, 24-S, 26-S, If you did a low grade set you would have filled those holes pretty easily. Most of the key dates in low grades like the S-VDB, 31-S, 09-S are not the tough ones in high grades. Not just based on prices but based on what you can find, like at shows many dealers have a nice S-VDB in their case but hardly any will have a nice unc 14-S or 15-S or 24-S or 26-S in their case.

David Halls old book from before he started PCGS "A Mercenarys Guide to the Rare Coin Market" has some neat info. Even though it's old, the stuff he says still holds true and he tells about the availability and issues with every date of older Lincoln in detail. He has a chart that shows what he considers 8 experts opinions as to the rarest high grade (MS64+) Lincolns. Nobody even lists the S-VDB, 09-S, 31-S at all. Only one of the 8 expert listed the 11-S at all. I won't list the entire chart but it gives a consensus based on the 8 charts... it is:

1, 1922-P
2, 1914-S tied with 1923-S
4, 1924-S
5, 1914-D
6, 1921-S
7, 1926-S
8, 1924-D
9, 1913-S
10, 1925-S

[TPring]

Here's another interesting fact, it all shifts when you look at high grades.


That's what I was referring to as 'flattening out' in the earlier post. That is what I found puzzling -- By the time it gets to MS things have more-or-less normalized price-wise.

So for 'some reason' the low-grade 11S's are just harder to obtain than other similars around that time period.


Thanks for the scarcity info: That is interesting.

[jfines69]

If I read the mintage info correctly the 11S was 4,026,000 with the 14S next at 4,137,000 that extra 111,000 would be a big difference over time due to loss of available coins in any grade... That would count some toward prices... The 09S VDB with only 484,000 should be the most valuable in any grade??? I never heard of a 1922P??? I thought they were only minted in Denver in 1922 that's why we get the 22 no D/weak D varieties???

[GrumpyEd]

If I read the mintage info correctly the 11S was 4,026,000 with the 14S next at 4,137,000 that extra 111,000 would be a big difference over time due to loss of available coins in any grade... That would count some toward prices... The 09S VDB with only 484,000 should be the most valuable in any grade??? I never heard of a 1922P??? I thought they were only minted in Denver in 1922 that's why we get the 22 no D/weak D varieties???

Jim, the whole point above is that mintage alone does not mean most valuable in any grade. All of those coins in the list cost much more than an S-VDB in high grades. Reason being..... less S-VDBs were made but it was a first year off issue so people were likely to put an example away so high grades exist so you can find a high grade red for 4-5K plus in circ grades people knew from Whitman folders it was rare so they saved circs long ago but those other coins had no reason to be saved in high grades so less exist so they can be 10K-20K+++ in super high red grades or almost none exist in the highest grades, nobody figured that they were that special to keep in high grades. But in low grades, stuff with 2-5 million minted do exist and tend to be like $20+ semi keys in circ grades.

1922 P is only the ones with no trace of a D, like you said they really are D mint coins. Crazy price because few were made that way plus they did put a spot for it in the folder. Other than that it's simply a filled or polished away D. I suspect that for some other years mintmarks might have been polished away or clogged but for almost every other year there is a plain so the ones polished off or clogged just get no attention like the regular plains from those years.

[jfines69]

Jim, the whole point above is that mintage alone does not mean most valuable in any grade. All of those coins in the list cost much more than an S-VDB in high grades. Reason being..... less S-VDBs were made but it was a first year off issue so people were likely to put an example away so high grades exist so you can find a high grade red for 4-5K plus in circ grades people knew from Whitman folders it was rare so they saved circs long ago but those other coins had no reason to be saved in high grades so less exist so they can be 10K-20K+++ in super high red grades or almost none exist in the highest grades, nobody figured that they were that special to keep in high grades. But in low grades, stuff with 2-5 million minted do exist and tend to be like $20+ semi keys in circ grades.

1922 P is only the ones with no trace of a D, like you said they really are D mint coins. Crazy price because few were made that way plus they did put a spot for it in the folder. Other than that it's simply a filled or polished away D. I suspect that for some other years mintmarks might have been polished away or clogged but for almost every other year there is a plain so the ones polished off or clogged just get no attention like the regular plains from those years.
Thanks for the follow up Ed... This is why I do not buy or sell coins... Thanks for explaining the 22P... Had me cornfused for a bit :LOL_Hair: